tcj skrev:for lige at hjælpe, kreatin skal tages i en loading periode - dvs én uge.. Du kører 20 gram om dagen fordelt på 5 portioner af 4 gram. Derefter kører du 7 uger med 3 gram om dagen lige før træning. Så holder du 4-5 ugers pause, også starter du på loading igen.. Get it?

Du skal forvente at tage lidt på i starten, men det er kun væske, i længden kommer der dog muskler.

Jeg har tænkt mig at tage 14 gram pr. dag den første uge. Og derefter 3 gram om dagen i 8 uger ca.

Kan det ikke også gøres sådan? Det minder meget om dit forslag.

Forresten er det normalt at man bliver lidt "ør" i hovedet og får ondt i halsen, lige når man starter indtagelse af kreatin? Eller er det bare tilfældigt at det er kommet på samme tid?

lassah skrev:

tcj skrev:for lige at hjælpe, kreatin skal tages i en loading periode - dvs én uge.. Du kører 20 gram om dagen fordelt på 5 portioner af 4 gram. Derefter kører du 7 uger med 3 gram om dagen lige før træning. Så holder du 4-5 ugers pause, også starter du på loading igen.. Get it?

Du skal forvente at tage lidt på i starten, men det er kun væske, i længden kommer der dog muskler.

Jeg har tænkt mig at tage 14 gram pr. dag den første uge. Og derefter 3 gram om dagen i 8 uger ca.

Kan det ikke også gøres sådan? Det minder meget om dit forslag.

Forresten er det normalt at man bliver lidt "ør" i hovedet og får ondt i halsen, lige når man starter indtagelse af kreatin? Eller er det bare tilfældigt at det er kommet på samme tid?

Der findes utrolig mange forslag til hvordan man skal indtage kreatin, i hvor store mængder og længden af perioderne... Loading fasen er faktisk slet ikke nødvendigt, men mange tager den dog med, da man herved kan se fremgangen meget pludseligt, hvorimod den ekstra styrke vil komme snigende uden loading fasen...

Men ja, det er meget normalt at tage 20 gram fordelt på fire portioner om dagen i loading fasen, hvorefter man fortsætter med 5 gram om dagen...

Tag du bare mellem 14 og 20 gram, jeg syns dog der er nemmere at dele op, hvis det er 20 gram.. ved ikke hvordan du vil måle præcist med en ske.. (14g/5 = 2,8g??)

Bare sørg for at hælde det ned med nogle kulhudrat drik evt saftevand eller appelsinjuice!

tcj skrev:
Bare sørg for at hælde det ned med nogle kulhudrat drik evt saftevand eller appelsinjuice!

Er det så vigtigt? Har da hørt om mange herinde der bare drikker det med vand.

Nej det er ikke så vigtigt. Medmindre tcj kan bevise andet.

TheCzech skrev:Nej det er ikke så vigtigt. Medmindre tcj kan bevise andet.

100% enig - så længe at kreatinen bliver optaget, så har det ingen indflydelse om det sker hurtigt eller langsomt...

Jeg ville bare indtage mit kreatin med et almindelig måltid...

Har lige et spørgsmål mere

Når jeg kører loading periode med 20 gram om dagen, hvor længe vil der så gå inden jeg kan mærke noget?

Gerne med noget god argumentation, da det er et væddemål med Vognbjerg herinde fra.

Nu føler jeg ikke selv jeg får en styrkefremgang ved brugen af kreatin, men du skulle gerne kunne mærke det inden for få dage: altså 2-4 dages tid skulle være nok...

Dokumentation har jeg dog ikke...

J-S-O skrev:Nu føler jeg ikke selv jeg får en styrkefremgang ved brugen af kreatin, men du skulle gerne kunne mærke det inden for få dage: altså 2-4 dages tid skulle være nok...

Dokumentation har jeg dog ikke...

Min erfaring siger 8-12 dage før effekt kommer. Så giver det mig 5-7 kg i bænkpres. Bruger loading fase med 20 gram/dag i 5 dage og herefter 5-6 gram /dag i vedligehold.

Har en undersøgelse liggende der dokumenterer styrkegains højst 5 dage efter start, finder den lige frem.

Der var den lille fyr :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... s=12131259

CONCLUSION: Five days of Cr supplementation increased body weight and fat-free body mass in resistance-trained men who were classified as responders. Peak force and total force during a repeated maximal isometric bench-press test were also significantly greater in the responders compared to the placebo group.

WannaBeBig skrev:

J-S-O skrev:Nu føler jeg ikke selv jeg får en styrkefremgang ved brugen af kreatin, men du skulle gerne kunne mærke det inden for få dage: altså 2-4 dages tid skulle være nok...

Dokumentation har jeg dog ikke...

Min erfaring siger 8-12 dage før effekt kommer. Så giver det mig 5-7 kg i bænkpres. Bruger loading fase med 20 gram/dag i 5 dage og herefter 5-6 gram /dag i vedligehold.

Okay. Og hvor lang tid går der før man kan se det? Altså via. muskelmasse.

Creatine and sugar (premixed) - What's the deal with mixing creatine with sugar? A 1996 study showed that ingesting a carbohydrate solution with creatine promoted a 60 percent greater increase in total creatine concentrations in the muscle, compared with taking creatine alone.(14) Sixty percent is a big difference. However, the subjects who took the creatine and carbohydrates were pounding back 93g of carbs four times per day for five days. 93g of carbohydrates are an additional 1,488 calories per day, or 7,440 calories for the five-day experiment. Any way you look at it that is a good way to get fat.

So, if you are going to follow the protocol of this study and suck back four sugar shakes per day for five days, that's where I would leave it. In other words, if you are not concerned about how big your gut gets in a week's time, and you want to load creatine, this is a proven method. After the loading period is over, if you wanted to continue with this type of drink, I would reserve the 93g of sugary goodness for your post-workout meal only. Post-workout is when your muscles are begging for sugar like a crack addict looking for a fix. If one were to critically compare this study to commercial creatine premixes, most supplement manufacturers would fall short on the amount of sugar in one serving. Does this make a difference?


Kilde: http://www.bodybuilding.com

Sorry jeg spammer sådan. Men syns det er så godt

3. Creatine and insulin mimicking agents - Agents that mimic insulin, such as Alpha-lipoic acid, have an effect similar to sugar on your body. When you consume high levels of simple sugars, your insulin goes through the roof. The insulin is responsible for getting nutrients (i.e. creatine) to the muscles. So these products theoretically punch up your insulin without the 93g of gut-busting sugar. The concept is fantastic, and I believe they work. A 1998 study confirmed, "insulin can enhance muscle creatine accumulation in humans, but only when present at physiologically high or supraphysiological concentrations."(15) What this means is high insulin levels need to exist to enhance creatine's effects. Using insulin mimickers instead of sugar is an area moving to the forefront of "making creatine better."

So the choice is yours. If you want my opinion (I'm going to give it to you even if you don't), I would load with a creatine product that has insulin-mimicking agents and maintain with a creatine/protein/carbohydrate drink post-workout. Why? As I said earlier, I will share a better alternative with you. In another recent study researchers showed that consuming a drink containing protein (50g) and carbohydrates (47g) had an equal effect on creatine absorption and retention as a drink containing 96g of carbohydrates alone. (16) So you get the same results with half the sugar and additional protein when your muscles need it. As far as buying premixed creatine sugar drinks, I would save some money and pick up a kilo of 100 percent pure creatine and mix it with something like Gatorade and Whey protein powder. It's simple and it works. That said, your choices might be different based on whether your priorities involve fat loss, muscle gain, etc. With the above information, you should have no trouble putting together an optimal plan.

kilde: http://www.bodybuilding.com

(15) Tarnopolsky M.A., Potential benefits of creatine monohydrate supplementation in the elderly. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2000 Nov;3(6):497-502

Undskyld men gider du poste et direkte link til kilden, jeg kan ikke bruge et til bodybuilding.com til noget.
Har søgt på : Tarnopolsky M.A., Potential benefits of creatine monohydrate supplementation in the elderly. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2000 Nov;3(6):497-502

Men den kilde den så finder frem, har INTET at gøre med det du quoter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Creatine plays a role in cellular energy metabolism and potentially has a role in protein metabolism. Creatine monohydrate supplementation has been shown to result in an increase in skeletal muscle total and phosphocreatine concentration, increase fat-free mass, and enhance high-intensity exercise performance in young healthy men and women. Recent evidence has also demonstrated a neuroprotective effect of creatine monohydrate supplementation in animal models of Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and after ischemia. A low total and phosphocreatine concentration has been reported in human skeletal muscle from aged individuals and those with neuromuscular disorders. A few studies of creatine monohydrate supplementation in the elderly have not shown convincing evidence of a beneficial effect with respect to muscle mass and/or function. Future studies will be required to address the potential for creatine monohydrate supplementation to attenuate age-related muscle atrophy and strength loss, as well as to protect against age-dependent neurodegenerative disorders such as Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

Hvor i den kilde er det de skriver, at man skal indtage sit kreatin sammen med sukker? Det kan godt være jeg bare ikke kan læse engelsk, men så må du jo hjælpe mig.

Må have postet det forkerte link.

Here you go:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=8944667&dopt=Abstract

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Center, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

This study investigated the effect of carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on skeletal muscle creatine (Cr) accumulation during Cr supplementation in humans. Muscle biopsy, urine, and plasma samples were obtained from 24 males before and after ingesting 5 g Cr in solution (group A) or 5 g Cr followed, 30 min later, by 93 g simple CHO in solution (group B) four times each day for 5 days. Supplementation resulted in an increase in muscle phosphocreatine (PCr), Cr, and total creatine (TCr; sum of PCr and Cr) concentration in groups A and B, but the increase in TCr in group B was 60% greater than in group A (P < 0.01). There was also a corresponding decrease in urinary Cr excretion in group B (P < 0.001). Creatine supplementation had no effect on serum insulin concentration, but Cr and CHO ingestion dramatically elevated insulin concentration (P < 0.001). These findings demonstrate that CHO ingestion substantially augments muscle Cr accumulation during Cr feeding in humans, which appears to be insulin mediated.

For at fortsætte:

A typical loading regime for a 70-kg athlete is a 5-g dose four times a day for a week. Thereafter the dose can be reduced to 2 to 5 g per day in order to maintain elevated creatine content. This supplementation protocol will increase intramuscular creatine and phosphocreatine content and enhance high intensity exercise performance. There is now some evidence that taking glucose (100 g) with the creatine (5 to 7 g) increases the uptake of creatine into muscle (Green et al., 1996a; Green et al., 1996b). Consequently, I recommend that athletes take creatine with carbohydrate (e.g. with grape juice) or ingest commercially available creatine supplements that combine creatine with glucose. For athletes wanting to promote additional gains in lean body mass, I recommend 15 to 25 g per day for 1 to 3 months. Although many athletes cycle on or off creatine, no study has determined whether this practice promotes greater gains in fat free mass or performance than continuous use. More research is needed here.

http://sportsci.org/traintech/creatine/rbk.html

Lækkert med noget videnskab. Vil dog lige supplere med et Morten Z citat på baggrund af denne undersøgelse:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

This study investigated the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with protein and/or carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on plasma creatine and serum insulin concentrations and whole body creatine retention. Twelve men consumed 4 x 5 g of creatine on four occasions in combination with 1) 5 g of CHO, 2) 50 g of protein and 47 g of CHO, 3) 96 g of CHO, or 4) 50 g of CHO. The increase in serum insulin was no different when the protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments were compared, but both were greater than the response recorded for the low-CHO treatment (both P < 0.05). As a consequence, body creatine retention was augmented by approximately 25% for protein-CHO and high-CHO treatments compared with placebo treatment. The areas under creatine- and insulin-time curves were related during the first oral challenge (r = -0.920, P < 0.05) but not after the fourth (r = -0.342). It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with approximately 50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.

http://www.motion-online.dk/kost_og_kos ... ulhydrat./

Moten Zacho skrev:Det er tidligere blevet vist at man optager mere kreatin, hvis man tager det sammen med ca. 100 gram kulhydrat. I dette studie sammenlignede man insulin-svar og kreatinoptagelse i fire situationer:

1. (5 gram kreatin + 5 gram kulhydrat) fire gange på et døgn
2. (5 gram kreatin + 50 gram kulhydrat) fire gange på et døgn
3. (5 gram kreatin + 47 gram kulhydrat + 50 gram protein) fire gange på et døgn
4. (5 gram kreatin + 96 gram kulhydrat) fire gange på et døgn

Det viste sig at insulinsvar og kreatinoptagelse var størst i situation 3 og 4. Der var ingen forskel mellem situation 3 og 4.

Ret interessant fandt man, at den stimulerende effekt på kreatin-optaget klingede af efter noget tid. Det vil sige, at det kun er de første dage man indtager kreatin, hvor man har glæde af at indtage en masse kulhydrat (eller kulhydrat+protein) samtidigt.

Konklusion: Medmindre man kun skal spise kreatin i nogle få dage, er det ligemeget om man får det sammen med kulhydrat. Der er naturligvis mange andre grunde til at man skal have tilstrækkeligt med kulhydrat og protein når man træner. Hvis man alligevel vil øge kreatinoptaget de første par dage, er 100 gram kulhydrat/proteinblanding ligeså godt som 100 gram ren kulhydrat.

Endnu en supplering. Et lile Jørgen Storm citat (er selvfølgelig ikke videnskab, men vurderer alligevel, at han er en ret kompetent kilde på dette område):

Du kan bruge lige præcis det fluidum, der passer dig bedst, - inklusive postevand!
Tidligere troede man, at en betydelig insulinresponse var nødvendig for at sikre, at kreatinet blev effektivt optaget af musklerne, men idag ved man, at der ikke er nogen praktiske problemer forbundet med at nå musklernes mætningspunkt, - uanset væske valg.
Men det smager nok bedre i juice end i postevand! "

http://(link slettet).dk/viewtopic.php?t=1585

Argh Lasse... så fik du sgu ret, hva ...

Nåh ja... men held og lykke med kreatinen hvert i fald ...

Har virket fint for mig.. jeg mærkede nok mest at mine muskler hurtigere blev friske igen ...

Vognbjerg. skrev:Argh Lasse... så fik du sgu ret, hva ...

Nåh ja... men held og lykke med kreatinen hvert i fald ...

Har virket fint for mig.. jeg mærkede nok mest at mine muskler hurtigere blev friske igen ...

Ja, sådan kan det gå

De ca. 3 kilo man tager på via. væske, hvornår kommer de? Jeg har været igang med loading fasen i 5 dage nu og jeg tror ikke jeg har taget noget på. Højst 1 kg.