Hey alle

Jeg har enormt svært ved at tage på. Jeg har fået afvide af mange at mit hurtige stofskifte kan være et handicap for min træning. jeg sørger for at spise rigtig mange proteiner hver dag og også så fedt som muligt... er der nogen der har nogen forslag så jeg kan få mere ud af min træning... håber i kan hjælpe.

hej. jeg har i flere år haft det samme problem, men der er ikke andet at gøre ind at spise bedre. det jeg gør er at spise 8 gange om dagen fordelt på:400g protein 550g kul. 200g fedt og 5210kcal. hvis du spiser sådan, træner ordenligt og ikke for mange øl så garanterer jeg at du tager på

lyder godt... hvad som mad kunne en dag f.eks lyde på?? hvad med pulver...???

K-Man: Han må da vel selv om hvor mange øl han drikker, især hvis hensigten er at tage på.

Ja modellen med 5k kcal om dagen er nu god humor.

Har aldrig haft problemer med at tage på, men prøvede alligevel at æde 5000 kcal/dag i 2 måneder, -det giver rigtig god fremgang, både styrke mæssigt, men bestemt også vægt mæssigt.

perfect skrev:Ja modellen med 5k kcal om dagen er nu god humor.

Har aldrig haft problemer med at tage på, men prøvede alligevel at æde 5000 kcal/dag i 2 måneder, -det giver rigtig god fremgang, både styrke mæssigt, men bestemt også vægt mæssigt.

Var der noget specielt som du spiste der indeholdt masser af kcal i forhold til størrelsen/mængden. Vil gerne spise mere, men man æder sig så hurtigt mæt i frugt, rugbrød osv.

du skal jo tænke på at de antal proteiner du skal have om dagen i gram er din kropsvægt*2.

f.eks. 75kg*2=150 gram protein

Du har sandsynligvis ikke lavt stofskifte (det er et medicinsk term som bliver misbrugt), du har bare en appetitregulering, der siger du ikke skal spise nok. Heldigt for at holde vægten, uheldigt for at øge den.

Din sultfornemmelse siger sikkert at du skal æde 2000kcal om dagen, så er den glad, men for at øge din masse skal du måske op på 3000. Prøv at tælle dine kalorier, så ser du sikkert hvad der er galt.

Og læs min artikel

det problem har jeg også men jeg fandt ud af noget! ÆD ÆD ÆD ÆD og så noget WG. Så skal man nok tage på, det gør jeg i hvertfald.

alkohol ødelækker dine muskler. man plejer at sige at en god druktur sætter træningen 3 uger tilbage.. og normalt er det kun folk med lav forbrænding der tager på af øl.. personlig smidder jeg 2-3kg efter en god druktur

sådan her ser min madplan normalt ud.
måltid 1:50gkornflakes med tykmælk+25g protein. 2:(efter trænig)100g havregryn+50gprot. 3: 4skiver rugbrød med torskerogn eller æg.. 4: det samme som måltid 3.. 5:25gprot+100g pinots 6:500g aftensmad+500g mælk 7:300g panekager+500g kakao 8:25g. prot+100g ost+1banan

k-man skrev:alkohol ødelækker dine muskler. man plejer at sige at en god druktur sætter træningen 3 uger tilbage.. og normalt er det kun folk med lav forbrænding der tager på af øl.. personlig smidder jeg 2-3kg efter en god druktur

Det var da den værste omgang vås jeg længe har hørt. Se fx på Smeden. Han har opnået en rigtig pæn fysik gennem de sidste par års træning, selvom der har været byture både torsdag, fredag og lørdag, hvor han selvfølgelig har været god bedugget.

Mht. at tage på er det da blot et spørgsmål om at drikke og spise nok. Så længe man spiser som man plejer vil man selvfølgelig også tage tilsvarende på af de ekstra kalorier man indtager gennem øl i løbet af aftenen. I en rigtig god bytur er der gerne 1500-2000 kcal alene i øl.

Jeg kunne rigtig godt tænke mig at se noget belæg for dine påstande, for det er rent udsagt vås. Hvorfor skulle en tur i gaden sætte træningen 3 uger tilbage? Jeg har været i byen hver fredag og lørdag de sidste mange uger og min træning er da stadig gået fremad, som også vil fremgå af min log, hvis du skulle få lyst til at kigge der. Og hvis alkohol ødelægger noget som helst, så er det da hovedet og leveren, men da ikke musklerne.

k-man skrev:alkohol ødelækker dine muskler. man plejer at sige at en god druktur sætter træningen 3 uger tilbage.. og normalt er det kun folk med lav forbrænding der tager på af øl.. personlig smidder jeg 2-3kg efter en god druktur

Du er helt galt på den?!

Grunden til du vejer mindre næste morgen er pga. alkohol er vanddrivende og at din krop har mistet en masse vand i løbet af natten.

Jeg drikker heller ikke siden jeg er begyndt at træne, men det er andre af årsager.

Men hvis du kan bevise din påstand ville det være lækkert med et link eller noget

Skulle nu stadig mene at alkohol sætte din krop i noget kun en katabolsk tilstand, men følger lige op på det. Er pakket med lektier, arbejde og skøger i den her uge... Haha

Nå, så skidt, søgte på et andet site og fandt denne artikel, som er skrevet af David Robson fra bodybuilding.com

Alcohol (ethyl alcohol or ethanol), one of the worlds oldest, most widely used, drugs, has many effects on the body, some positive, but most negative. Historically, alcohol has been blamed for many of the worlds tragedies and problems, from the fall of the Roman Empire (What’s Your Poison; 1997) (1) to the disbanding of many families. Ironically, it is made from relatively innocuous substances.

Fermented grain, fruit juice and honey have been used to make alcohol for thousands of years. Alcohol´s use spans nationalities and demographics as it serves to relax and provide a source of enjoyment. It has even been shown to have some salutary effects, such as a blood thinning action beneficial to the cardiovascular system, in addition to the aforementioned social and relaxation aspects.

However, the doses required in these instances are very minimal (1-2 glasses in most cases), and anything beyond this more than outweighs any potential benefits. This is partly because alcohol is classed as a central nervous system depressant, causing the brain to relax and inhibitions to decrease.

Ones rational thought, emotional status, judgement, speech and muscle coordination are adversely affected through alcohol consumption. In extreme cases it can cause coma and death. Alcohol is specifically detrimental to bodybuilders, or any athlete, in that it can interfere with recovery, protein synthesis, hydration, motivation, and nutrient intake. Its financial cost is a burden for anyone who buys it.

A review of the research will show that alcohol is poisonous to every organ in the body and will adversely affect everyone who engages in its use to some Extent (1, 6, 7, . This article is not intended to dissuade people from using alcohol moderately, for recreational purposes, but will point out, from an athlete and a researchers point of view, its significant shortcomings. Cheers.


Alcohol´s Effects

Ethyl alcohol is a very small molecule which is soluble in lipid and water solutions. It is metabolized primarily by the liver, where an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase breaks the alcohol down into acetaldehyde, which is further broken down into acetate.

Acetate is metabolized into carbon dioxide and water, which is excreted. Alcohol is absorbed rapidly from the small intestine (80%) and stomach (20%), before any other nutrients are digested.

These properties ensure that alcohol gets into the blood stream and crosses the blood-brain barrier easily. Hence alcohol´s instantaneous effect on thought processes. In fact, alcohol has a number of detrimental effects on the brain two of which, central to the scope of this article, will be discussed first.

Alcohol, once it has crossed the blood-brain barrier, will inebriate the cerebral cortex (the part of the brain responsible for executive functions such as rational thought) and work its way down to the limbic system. It won’t however affect the limbic system. This turns out to be a problem because the limbic system, being the most primitive part of the brain, then takes over the role of rational thought.

This is problematic because the limbic system is entirely emotional, and one then begins to think with their emotions rather than the rational area of their brain (the cerebral cortex). A surprisingly small amount of alcohol will have an instant effect on ones ability to control their emotions, and their judgement as a result. A comparatively large amount of alcohol and one might become violent or completely out of control in other respects.

As mentioned, alcohol is also a depressant. It depressant effect results from increased transmission of the GABA systems (2). In other words, alcohol consumption creates a demand for more GABA. GABA is a neurotransmitter responsible for restricting, or depressing the excitability of our brain. Glutamate is the Neurotransmitter that has the opposite effect as it is responsible for brain excitability and can be increased through the intake of various stimulants. It now gets a bit complex.

The post synaptic receptors (the receptors of one brain cell that receive a message from another brain cell) for GABA, GABA-A, then become stimulated and respond by hyperpolarising the cell membrane and reducing the chance of an action potential occurring. An action potential is an electrical charge propagated through a neuron which causes that neuron to become stimulated. It gets worse.

Over time, if a sufficient amount of alcohol is consumed, the GABA receptors become accustomed to a certain amount of alcohol and more is required to get the same depressing and intoxicating effect. In short, tolerance occurs. With more and more alcohol the potential for the GABA receptor to function improperly increases. This may result in hyperexcitability causing, anxiety, tremors, disorientation, and hallucinations when one is not drinking.

This is alcohol at its destructive extreme.

In addition to alcohols destructive effects at the time of ingestion, it can also cause neural tissue death when its consumption is stopped. As explained, GABA (a inhibitory neurotransmitter) binds to its GABA-A receptor following alcohol intake. When this happens, a chloride channel is opened and extracellular chloride moves into a intracellular compartment on the receptor. The neuron is hyperpolarized as a result and excitatory postsynaptic potentials (EPSPs) cannot occur, as mentioned.

The main point here is that alcohol facilitates the ability of GABA to open chloride channels. With greater (chronic) use of alcohol the neuron may become entirely dependant on alcohol for its GABA function in the long term. However, at the time of chlorides uptake another process, this time involving the glutamine (excitatory neurotransmitter) receptors, causes further problems.

The glutamate system is up-regulated with alcohol withdrawal and calcium-channel activity is stimulated. Calcium is released directly onto the post synaptic neuron (calcium influx) in large amounts and neural death occurs. This happens particularly after binge sessions that occur on a regular basis.


Implications For Athletes

Alcohol is particularly detrimental for athletes as it interferes with many of the processes so vital to success (3,5). Focus, performance, recovery and rebuilding are all affected. Given that alcohol´s effects can linger on for days an athlete would be wise to refrain from its use when competing.

Although alcohol is absorbed rapidly it is metabolized very slowly and its effects may still impact athletic performance up to 48 hours after the last drink.

Assuming the athlete is performing within 48 hours of its consumption, as little as two to three standard drinks can directly:


Decrease strength

Impair reaction time

Impair balance and eye/hand coordination

Impair fine motor and gross motor coordination

Increase fatigue: Liver function is significantly impacted following the ingestion of alcohol. Up to 48 hours after the last drink the liver may still be metabolizing alcohol at the expense of glycogen (metabolized carbohydrate).
Given that glycogen is vital for most of the body’s cellular functions, body fatigue, cognitive decline and loss of strength will result when it cannot be used efficiently. Reaction time, balance, coordination are also impacted by this process in addition to the direct aforementioned neurochemical effects alcohol has on the brain.


Interfere with body temperature regulation

Cause dehydration: Alcohol has an impact on kidney function, which interferes with the regulation of electrolytes and fluids in the body (7). Cellular waste removal and nutrient supply are the main functions of fluid and electrolytes, which are controlled through kidney function.
The kidneys filter large amounts of water from many parts of the body, including the brain, to break down alcohol. This causes dehydration and can cripple an athletes performance.


Deplete aerobic capacity and negatively impact endurance for up to 48 hours after the last drink

Impact cellular repair: Protein metabolism is negatively impacted when alcohol is in the system. This has obvious implications for muscle repair.

Impacts the cardiovascular system: Alcohol consumption raises blood pressure and this can result in the heart having work harder to pump blood through the body (. An abnormally fast heart beat (tachycardia) can also result from alcohol consumption. Further, alcohol increases the synthesis of cholesterol and this can increase the risk of coronary heart disease.

Disrupt sleep: Alcohol significantly interferes with restful sleep (4). It can make falling to sleep easier to begin with due to its sedative effects but the quality of sleep (particularly rapid eye movement) will be disturbed.

Cause vitamin and mineral depletion: Vitamins and minerals so necessary for our health have their absorption interfered with, while the body’s own supply are slowly depleted, when alcohol is consumed. Even one or two drinks per day (supposedly the “recommended” amount) can have this effect. B vitamins, which have important enzymatic and metabolic functions are depleted extra rapidly (.
This deleteriously effects the heart, liver, thyroid and kidneys. Vitamin A is also depleted and this interferes with the body´s ability to fight disease. Vitamin C depletion makes one susceptible to anemia. Also, when alcohol is ingested the body excretes calcium at twice the normal rate, thus impacting on bone growth and wound healing.


Cause cognitive impairment: cognitive impairment (disruption of thought processes and brain damage) occur through a number of mechanisms (6,7). Alcohol related sleep disruption contributes to the insufficient restoration of ones neural processes. The effects of GABA-A stimulation, as explained, have been shown to contribute to neural death.
Lack of glycogen to the brain, as a result of alcohol metabolism, causes slow, disoriented, thinking. These are just some factors. There are many more. The implications of cognitive impairment are severe for athletes: loss of motivation, focus and desire in addition to lessened perspicacity and even neuromuscular response.

The effects outlined here are just some of the more obvious ones. There are many others, and it would probably take a book to outline and explain them in sufficient detail.


Conclusion

Even though alcohol will greatly impact performance 25 to 48 hours after the last drink, it has longer lasting, more indirect, effects. The reduction in quality of training and sleep in the period after its consumption, may cause a reduction in performance over the days following this period.

So it is probably best to stay away from alcohol completely when training and competing to win. Indeed, the only real way to avoid alcohol´s effects is to refrain from its use completely.


References

What’s Your Poison.(1997). [On line] http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/al ... lcohol.htm
Aguayo LG. Ethanol potentiates the GABAA activates Cl- currents in mouse hippocampal and cortical neurons. Eur J Pharmacol 1990;187:127-130.
Bloomfield, J. Fricker, P.A. & Fitch, K.D.(1992). Textbook of Science and Medicine in Sport. Blackwell Scientific Publications: Australia.
Walsh J K. Sedative effects of ethanol at night. Journal of Study on Alcohol, 1991, 6, pp. 597-600.
Burke, L.(1992). The Complete Guide to Food for Sports Performance. Allen and Unwin: Australia.
Dodes. L. M.(2002).The Heart of Addiction : A New Approach to Understanding and Managing Alcoholism and Other Addictive Behaviors: Quill, USA.
Hunt WA. Are binge drinkers more at risk of developing brain damage? Alcohol 1993;10:559-561.
Science in Africa.(2004). Alcohol and the Inevitable Hangover From Over Consumption. [On line] http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2001/d ... drinks.htm

jeg ved bare at jeg taber mig efter druk, så kan det godt være at det bare er væske det ved jeg ikke.. det med de 3 uger er noget jeg har fået af vide af en tidl. talsmand for dansk styrkeløft forbund så det troede jeg selvføldig på.. sorry hvis jeg har skrevet noget der ikke passer

men håber at vi godt kan blive enige om at alkohol ikke ligefrem fremmer ens træning??

k-man det kan vi godt, ihvertfald hvis det ikke er i meget moderate mængder!

Kan godt være der bliver sagt noget vrøvl om øl, men flere får det decideret til at lyde som om det er en god ide at drikke øl for at tage på, det er det ABSOLUT ikke.. Øl går ud over træningen og er dårligere kalorier

Hvorfor mener du, at flere får det til at lyde som en god idé til at tage på? Den udvikling har jeg nu ikke lagt mærke til, men hvis det er din opfattelse så er det vel okay.

ikke for at snakke unden om jeres øl snak men kazuko sørger du for at spise god inden du ligger dig til at sove? vis du ikke gør så begynd på det

KONKLUSION OG AFSLUTTENDE BEMÆRKNINGER

Som man kan se, så har alkohol en meget negativ indvirkning på kroppen. Og alle de negative elementer har en virkelig dårlig indvirkning på vores træning og det vi får ud af vores træning. Lad os for god ordens skyld opsummere de ting vi har fundet frem til. Ikke mindst for dem som ikke havde lyst til at læse det videnskabelige afsnit.

1. Ved alkohol indtagelse lagrer man omkring 5 % af de indtagne alkohol-kalorier som fedt. Den resterende mængde omdannes i leveren til acetat. Dette øger blodkoncentrationen af acetat. Når blodkoncentrationen af acetet stiger, så falder fedtforbrændingen, da kroppen prioriterer det brændstof der er mest af.

2. Alkohol øger appetitten, hvilket betyder at pkt. 1 forstærkes i og med at vi samtidig med alkohol indtagelsen indtager store mængder kalorier via mad.

3. Alkohol hæmmer testosteron produktionen og øger kortisol produktionen i op til 24 timer efter alkohol-indtagelse. Det lave testosteron niveau betyder forringet muskelopbygning, og langsommere restitution. Kortisol er et katabolsk hormon, hvilket betyder at det har en muskelnedbrydende effekt. Begge dele særdeles negativt for en vægttræningsatlet.

4. Mænd som drikker meget alkohol får en større mave, via forøget fedtdeponering, og lavere gennemsnitlig muskelmasse end folk som ikke drikker.

5. Alkohol forringer ydeevne i forbindelse med sport, ved at gå ind og påvirke en lang række relevante områder. Søvnkvaliteten forringes, energiniveauet falder, styrken falder, dehydrering, manglende koordination, balance og reaktionsevne, samtidig med at hjertet skal arbejde hårdere, når der er alkohol i kroppen.

Så overordnet er det meget nemt at konkludere at alkohol indtagelse er en ekstremt dårlig ide, hvis man går meget op i sin sport. Ikke mindst pga. de ovenstående punkter, men også fordi folk ofte har en tendens til at droppe træningspas pga. tømmermænd. Det betyder, at der ikke kun er tale om at de træningspas man har lavet inden indtagelse af alkohol giver et dårligere udbytte, blandt andet pga. hormon-ubalancen. Nej, formkurven får også et knæk, fordi man misser et eller flere træningspas pga. tømmermænd.

Der er dog ingen grund til at være urealistisk. Det er en del af ungdomskulturen at gå i byen og drikke en større eller mindre mængde alkohol. Derfor vil det være totalt urealistisk at forlange at unge mennesker som dyrker meget sport skal holde sig 100 % fra alkohol. Men det er dog anbefalelsesværdigt at man ikke drikker sig fra sans og samling hver gang, og at man måske holder antallet af byture nede på et niveau, hvor det ikke ødelægger træningen totalt.