First,
I´d apologize about my english .. but simply .. i don´t know Danish !

also, i´d apologize if I posted this topic in category i shouldn´t put in .. but as i said i don´t know spanish .. so i can´t select the correct category ..

Second,
iam talking here about what happened from Jyllands Posten (http://www.jp.dk) towards Islam .. and the prophet Mohammed ..

I think most of you - or at least some of you - heard about their charactures .. and the crime they showed towards Islam and all muslims ..

I don´t know any of you, and i don´t know this website .. it´s my first visit .. and my first post ..

just all i know that , all of you here are from denmark .. So, iam just asking ..

Do you agree that someone ,or some magazines of news paper, insults of your religious thoughts ?

for example if you are christian, do you agree that someone insults the Jesus by some charatures ?

Thanks, and I hope this topic isn´t going to be deleted .. it´s very important to me as Muslim to know the denmarks´ opinions in this case ..

SO, just iam hoping from adminstrators no to delete my topic .. and thanks

.. but as i said i don´t know spanish ..

Hvad skal han også bruge spansk til her .. ?

Personligt syntes jeg at den debat efterhånden er kørt så langt ud at det hele er lige til at lukke op og skide i.

At muslimer i danmark og andre lande er så blottet for "humor" og sarkasme er da foruroligende.

I årevis har hele verden gjort nar af religion. De katolske præster og deres omgang med kordrenge er blevet latterligtgjort gennem flere år nu uden at man har set katolske lande boykotte lande som har gjort det.

Jeg syntes det er meget barnligt og bare med til at smide ekstra benzin på integrationsbålet her hjemme.

Jeg fatter ikke at muslimer er så aggressivt anlagt og at de tager sådan på vej over sådan noget. Jeg håber også at de muslimer, som måtte læse det her er delvis enige om at det ikke er noget at skabe så stort påstyr om - fordi sådan gør man i danmark, og kan man ikke indordne sig burde man nok finde et andet sted.

Jyllandsposten printed the drawings of prophet Mohammed as a part of the debate about freedom of speech. They didn´t see it as a crime against Islam and the Muslims. I understand why you´re upset since religion is a very sensitive subject to a lot of persons, but the matter of the case has simply gone too far.

Muslims in general are too concerned about their religion than to their fellow beings. Why are you so obsessed with your religion?

It´s really hard to compare danish christians to muslims. Because for most of "us" it´s just not as big a deal as it is for you. Religion is not a big part of most danish peoples lives. The danish churchs are pretty much abandoned, allthough we use them for special occasions, like weddings etc.

I haven´t been following the mess about the charactures, and I haven´t seen them.

But I can say without doubt in my mind, that there was no intended insult in the charactures. The keywords are humour and sarcasm. Sarcasm is a easy to be misunderstood, but today a lot of humour is based on it.

I do think that I "you" take it as a direct insult from Denmark against Islam is pretty messed up. How can charactures in a newspaper be a statement of a country? Here comes the freedom of speech into the picture.

My opinion:

I think that´s it was not fair by JP to publish the illustrations, but i don´t understand why i have to be all danish peoples fault? In denmark we live in a democratic society where it´s all right to express themselve. I don´t think it´s fair by the arabic countries to boykot all danish products. But an apology could be fair by the papers administration.

Thanks all for replying,

Stregen:
sorry .. i meant danish !


Rookie:
i´d be gratefull if you can translate your post


Jakob:
iam not so obssed .. just i respect my religion .. and it does mean 90% of my live .. as pzo said .. myabe muslims are related to their religion more than any !

How can charactures in a newspaper be a statement of a country?

why i have to be all danish peoples fault?

OK .. who said the we consider you - Dansih people - are responsible for what hppened ?
in fact .. there are 2 parts ,
1. the JP .. and it didn´t gave any official apologize !
2. the denmark´s government .. and it didn´t do anything too ! altought there are many arabic and islamic repersentatives talked to them ..

what iam trying to know here .. just .. are those danish people .. agree with what happened ?

I know that Denmark is domcratic country, and it has the freedom to publish what it wants .. but would it be ok .. if someone has drawn the Jesus with a bomb on his head ? or maybe .. some sarcastic drawings ?

JP has the freedom to do what it wants .. but also the freedom has limits !!

its limits between .. politics and religions .. and maybe some other considerations ..

I don´t think it´s fair by the arabic countries to boykot all danish products

i think the JP has the freedom to publish anything, and we have the freedom to choose our imports ..


Thanks for anyone tried to discuss .. ^_^

I think there is divided opinions in the danish people, but it seems like the most are a bit "angry" because the arabic world have boykottet the danish products. yes you can choose you own import sources but anyway. I don´t know why the danish government haven´t made a public apology.

Muslim skrev:
Do you agree that someone ,or some magazines of news paper, insults of your religious thoughts ?

for example if you are christian, do you agree that someone insults the Jesus by some charatures ?

Thanks, and I hope this topic isn´t going to be deleted .. it´s very important to me as Muslim to know the denmarks´ opinions in this case ..

In my situation it´s doesn´t matter so much (it wouldn´t bother me), because i´m not so fanatic, i barelly go in church / never.

Ohh my f***ing God..!!

I have never read such a stupid reply.The way you contredict your self:

JP has the freedom to do what it wants .. but also the freedom has limits !!

If Jyllandsposten have the freedom of speech - then why apologize for something they said? They can regret saying it but not apologize.

Why should the danish goverment do anything at all? They haven´t done anything wrong - therefore why should they apologize. And apologizing on behalf of a private company just because of something like religion is the dumbest thing ever.

In contrast to many islamic countries, where religion is a part of politics, Denmark have seperatet the state and the religion.

Citat:
I don´t think it´s fair by the arabic countries to boykot all danish products


i think the JP has the freedom to publish anything, and we have the freedom to choose our imports ..

That is the worst thing you could say - just like saying "I know you are but what am i?" By doing so, you insult yourself, your religion and all muslims by being so ignorant.

I´m sorry to say, but i have lost some of my respect for all muslims since they are so naive and vindictive.

And let´s just wait and se how the islamic representatives in Saudi Arabia will dance and apologize, when our (and yours) friend the U.S (world police) starts an imbargo on all countries refusing to trade with Denmark.

Some motherfuckers always try to iceskate up hill

I can understand that some muslims, are angry, but, in our religion it is wrong to kill a woman if she cheats on her husband, but you dont se any danish people on the streets armed with AK-47, burning of any flags, even thought that killing is against the word of the bibel.

i get very angry then people burn my flag in the news, because we have the right to say, print, and draw that ever we like.

There should be a line between religion, and gorvenment. if not, it will end in caos, just look out in the world.. exampels everywere.

still i think it is very OK to have a religion, as long as it doens´t hurt anyone.

Im no longer into religion, becourse it ( for me ) created mere problems than is helped.


sry, for bad english.

I agree with rookie !! Why do our goverment need to official apologize, FORE WHAT ?? Its not the goverment but the company Jyllandsposten there has printet the papire ! And why boykot Arla and attack there employees ?? A danish firm there is delivering danish producks to the middeleast, its make no sens ?
If all the muslim world is boykotting danish produks, then we also shout boykot them, but than will not leed to anything good !! I Think its its like a kid´s game, with burning flags, attacking innesent employees, and boykotting produks... We need to fix this on a grown up way !!

When you put the religion above your fellow beings you are obsessed with the religion. At least in my eyes.

What is a crime for muslims? For me it looks like killing, burning flags etc. is not a crime but drawing a - excuse me - stupid picture that doesn´t matter is a crime?

I wouldn´t give a fuck if someone drawed Jesus with a bomb on his head. Well.. No offense, but we´re not the people who are suicide bombers. If a muslim drawed Jesus while eating pork i would just laugh.

Let me tell you this. In our religion it is said that robbing and killing is not okay. But muslims in Denmark do it anyway. I don´t know which is worst - i´d like you to tell me.

Freedom of speech is not = provoke all you want!
That being said, I gotta say you guys certently know how to create a drama. Would an apology fro the danish goverment solve the problem? Then i´d say we give it to ya so we can get on with our lives. Seriously.. If I dident have bigger problems than a funny picture of god, Jesus or yeah, even my mother.... Sigh, I would be happy!!

Not sure if this thread are meant as a joke, if so, then ya got me!!

Muslim skrev:Thanks all for replying,

Stregen:
sorry .. i meant danish !


Rookie:
i´d be gratefull if you can translate your post


Jakob:
iam not so obssed .. just i respect my religion .. and it does mean 90% of my live .. as pzo said .. myabe muslims are related to their religion more than any !

How can charactures in a newspaper be a statement of a country?

why i have to be all danish peoples fault?

OK .. who said the we consider you - Dansih people - are responsible for what hppened ?
in fact .. there are 2 parts ,
1. the JP .. and it didn´t gave any official apologize !
2. the denmark´s government .. and it didn´t do anything too ! altought there are many arabic and islamic repersentatives talked to them ..

what iam trying to know here .. just .. are those danish people .. agree with what happened ?

I know that Denmark is domcratic country, and it has the freedom to publish what it wants .. but would it be ok .. if someone has drawn the Jesus with a bomb on his head ? or maybe .. some sarcastic drawings ?

JP has the freedom to do what it wants .. but also the freedom has limits !!

its limits between .. politics and religions .. and maybe some other considerations ..

I don´t think it´s fair by the arabic countries to boykot all danish products

i think the JP has the freedom to publish anything, and we have the freedom to choose our imports ..


Thanks for anyone tried to discuss .. ^_^

I think you have to understand, that most of us feel trapped in a conflict we had nothing to do with. Its a problem beeing pulled on top of our heads. Some stupid journalist drew a picture and published it in a newspaper. Thats the bottomline.

Its a stupid fucking picture, and its was probably even more stupid to publish it, because we know that the reactions will be massive. But it is a dead race trying to compare the state of mind of dane and a muslim. We are just too far apart.

I think its fair to react, and say "hey, that wasn´t cool. apologize!". But making threats, burning our flags, boycutting our exports. Now thats just to much. Its like adding petrol to the fire. Now you have upset the danish people aswell, and its going to end bad somehow. We know it and you know it.

AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS: Some stupid journalist drew a picture and published it in a newspaper.

To put pressure on the danish goverment to get a formel apology, is just childish.. What is such an apology worth?? NOTHING.

mmmm .. I came here into your forum, and so Iam considered as Guest !
so that i expect some respect .. not like some posts above ^^^^^ !

but it seems like the most are a bit "angry" because the arabic world have boykottet the danish products

firstly, I couldn´t realize how can´t you get angry when you see some stupid pictures of Jesus !
mm .. ok let´s say .. stupid pictures of your mother? your dad ? if he/she was famous .. is it ok that stupid journalists put what do they think of your mother ? even if it was just sarctisc .. !

After all insults that we got .. stupid journalists made stupid pictures .. they still think it´s freedom to speech .. our repersentative talked to the government .. and it´s still freedom to speech " sorry we can´t do anything " .

what do you think that we should do ? no one from Denmark .. even if government or JP is going to do anything .. then let´s - we - do ourselves .. and we already started ..

I know that you - danish people - have no hand in alllll this problems .. but i say .. A political Apology from your Government was to solve the Problem before it starts !!


Lykantrop :
Thanks for your wise post

you should know that we, the muslims, don´t agree about killing or robbing danish people .. and our islam never asked us to do that ..
just every religion or every orgnization in this world has its own fanatics !


Finally, you may ask yourself . . what i can do as danish citizen to solve this problem ?
I say ..
1. if you really belive that your JP insulted islam in that pictures ..
2. then you should try to communicate with your government and make your voice reached ( and remember that you are domcratic country )

please , discuss me politely so i can answer you ..

Religion is the source to "all" evil in my opinion, just look at all the wars, conflicts we have today and have had i the past years..

But when people claim that some "pictures" og images what so ever, is showing something provoking its in my opinion ridicoulus to see how serios muslims takes it.. Come on, i dont think many danish would be bothered about some pictures making a bit fun of jesus or something... But then again, i understand the problem, but i dont see the idea in making it a huge issue, just let the newspaper know youre opinion(s)...

They do make stupid pictures of jesus. They do make stupid pictures of some peoples famous mothers and familys even our king and queen are victims of the sacasm and humor in danish newspapers Thats what we call freedom of speech.. Fredom of speech has nothing to do with our goverment.. NOTHING.. Thats why youll never get a apology form out head of goverment.

Ill jump into this joke one more time. Why the hell are you discussing this on a bodybuilder forum? Everyone knows that bodybuilders have tiny brains (Undskyld drenge, joke ) No seriously, there must be better places to adress this issue.

The picture might have been out of line, but to start kicking innocent peoples ass and burning our flag because of that, are way WAY out of line and many wont tolerate that kind of behaviour. Two wrongs dosent make a right!

Muslim skrev:mm .. ok let´s say .. stupid pictures of your mother? your dad ? if he/she was famous .. is it ok that stupid journalists put what do they think of your mother ? even if it was just sarctisc .. !

If that happened i would laugh because everyone would know its a joke..

And my opinion is that its stupid to get so angry over some pictures.. Come on you threat danish people because a danish newspaper print some drawings? come on... how stupid is that?

you should know that we, the muslims, don´t agree about killing or robbing danish people .. and our islam never asked us to do that ..
just every religion or every orgnization in this world has its own fanatics !

That´s what i thought, but in your eyes - what is the biggest crime? Drawing af picture of mohammed with a bomb in his turban or killing an innocent civilian?

JP has freedom of speech which means that they haven´t done anything illegal! Why should the danish government apologize for something that JP did and by the way. If you guys stopped making ddos-attacks on the servers you´d be able to read the apologize from JP on their website.

Gider ikk li læse det hele igennem, men kommer li med noget som mange danskere glemmer at tænke på.....

Hvis jeg så et billede af jesus hvor der var gjort grin af på en sjov måde"med et glimt i øjet" ville jeg os grinne af det eller bare smile, men i det øjeblik at nogen afbillede Gudville jeg tage dyb afstand fra det og frodømme dem som har gjort det... Om det så var en en kristen, muslim eller indianer...

Li som det er i kristendom, hvor det er forbudt at afbillede Gud, li sådan er det i Islam... Det er en synd og forbudt at afbillede profeten muhammed li som vi ikk må afbillede Gud... Derfor er jeg sku enig i alle de protester der er kommet fra muslimer, men jeg synes selvfølgelig at de gik over stregen da de boycottede danske vare og brændte flag af...

Synes det JP har gjort er barnligt og de har gjort det uden at tænke sig om....

Den kom sku hurtigt

jeg synes også det var dumt gjort af Jyllands posten. En ting er at der er ytringsfrihed men hvorfor lige krænke millioner af muslimer bare fordi muligheden foreligger. Enhver ville kunne sige sig selv at dette ville ske ( had mod danskere/ boykot af varer) når den muslimske verdenen fik billederne af se. Hvorfor skabe sådan en stemning! Det giver absolut ingen mening andet et økonomisk tab samt baadwill i den muslimske verden. Det er en tab - tab situation.

Det er på tide fogh kommer ud af busken inden situationen kommer helt ud af kontrol.

Muslim skrev:mmmm .. I came here into your forum, and so Iam considered as Guest !
so that i expect some respect .. not like some posts above ^^^^^ !

but it seems like the most are a bit "angry" because the arabic world have boykottet the danish products

firstly, I couldn´t realize how can´t you get angry when you see some stupid pictures of Jesus !
mm .. ok let´s say .. stupid pictures of your mother? your dad ? if he/she was famous .. is it ok that stupid journalists put what do they think of your mother ? even if it was just sarctisc .. !

After all insults that we got .. stupid journalists made stupid pictures .. they still think it´s freedom to speech .. our repersentative talked to the government .. and it´s still freedom to speech " sorry we can´t do anything " .

what do you think that we should do ? no one from Denmark .. even if government or JP is going to do anything .. then let´s - we - do ourselves .. and we already started ..

I know that you - danish people - have no hand in alllll this problems .. but i say .. A political Apology from your Government was to solve the Problem before it starts !!


Lykantrop :
Thanks for your wise post

you should know that we, the muslims, don´t agree about killing or robbing danish people .. and our islam never asked us to do that ..
just every religion or every orgnization in this world has its own fanatics !


Finally, you may ask yourself . . what i can do as danish citizen to solve this problem ?
I say ..
1. if you really belive that your JP insulted islam in that pictures ..
2. then you should try to communicate with your government and make your voice reached ( and remember that you are domcratic country )

please , discuss me politely so i can answer you ..

As of today this "conflict" kinda took some dramatic changes. First of all. Muslims in Denmark went public with a bunch of lies telling us that we harmed more than 200000 muslims in Denmark. This was releaved as a lie and Imam Abu Laban admitted it.

Newspapers and tv media has been broadcasting news of mujaahedin threats regarding denmark! Apparantly they have written on the internet that every warrior should hit available Danish and Norwegian targets, and Danish organisations have been evacuating personel in iraq. Also travel agencies have warned about travelling to the middle east.

You see this conflict has now moved into a critical phase! Now its a matter principal, and before we know it - its going to cost lifes. The official stance of this country is that we cant give in to such threats. So i dont think you will see it!

BUT! both jp and arla have made their sorry notes! what more can we do?

//Lykantrop

life*raider skrev:Gider ikk li læse det hele igennem, men kommer li med noget som mange danskere glemmer at tænke på.....

Hvis jeg så et billede af jesus hvor der var gjort grin af på en sjov måde"med et glimt i øjet" ville jeg os grinne af det eller bare smile, men i det øjeblik at nogen afbillede Gudville jeg tage dyb afstand fra det og frodømme dem som har gjort det... Om det så var en en kristen, muslim eller indianer...

Li som det er i kristendom, hvor det er forbudt at afbillede Gud, li sådan er det i Islam... Det er en synd og forbudt at afbillede profeten muhammed li som vi ikk må afbillede Gud... Derfor er jeg sku enig i alle de protester der er kommet fra muslimer, men jeg synes selvfølgelig at de gik over stregen da de boycottede danske vare og brændte flag af...

Synes det JP har gjort er barnligt og de har gjort det uden at tænke sig om....

Den kom sku hurtigt

Så godt sagt

life*raider skrev:Gider ikk li læse det hele igennem, men kommer li med noget som mange danskere glemmer at tænke på.....

Hvis jeg så et billede af jesus hvor der var gjort grin af på en sjov måde"med et glimt i øjet" ville jeg os grinne af det eller bare smile, men i det øjeblik at nogen afbillede Gudville jeg tage dyb afstand fra det og frodømme dem som har gjort det... Om det så var en en kristen, muslim eller indianer...

Li som det er i kristendom, hvor det er forbudt at afbillede Gud, li sådan er det i Islam... Det er en synd og forbudt at afbillede profeten muhammed li som vi ikk må afbillede Gud... Derfor er jeg sku enig i alle de protester der er kommet fra muslimer, men jeg synes selvfølgelig at de gik over stregen da de boycottede danske vare og brændte flag af...

Synes det JP har gjort er barnligt og de har gjort det uden at tænke sig om....

Den kom sku hurtigt

Derfor er det vel ikke op til den menige muslim at dømme synderne, men Gud / Allah? Jeg kan sagtens forholde mig til, at man får ondt i røven over, at andre skider på ens religion, men det undrer mig bare lidt at det lige præcis er Jyllands Postens tegninger, der skal bringe sindene i kog. Vesten skider jo op og ned ad Islam hver eneste dag, så hvorfor hidse sig sådan op over en "bagatel". Desuden, hvis tegningerne alligevel er lavet af en ikke-muslim og samtidig en synder, kan jeg helt ærligt ikke se nogen grund til at tage sådan på vej.

JP has freedom of speech which means that they haven´t done anything illegal! Why should the danish government apologize for something that JP did and by the way. If you guys stopped making ddos-attacks on the servers you´d be able to read the apologize from JP on their website.

BUT! both jp and arla have made their sorry notes! what more can we do?

OK, they already apologized .. but after what ?

it´s just like .. someone hit you
and then you go and say: apologize for me ..
he says : Never .. i will not you are stupid
you : Ok .. then i´ll boycot your products ..
he: Oh. . iam so sorry !


what i mean .. it´s tooo late to apologize now ..
all muslims around the world are being insulted .. and belive me .. they are feel so badly now ..

in my opinion .. we aren´t stupid that our religion is so important for us .. simply not like yours ..

But i see the denmark government is so so stupid .. that it didn´t try to minimize all this problems before it fires out ..

OK .. it´s 11:30 pm here in Egypt .. just few minutes ago .. our prime minister announced that Egypt has completely boycoted all denmark´s products .. and has already pulled our repersentative there .. and kick out the danish representative ..


OK .. i think iam not going to reply again .. I just in those few posts realized .. that there is big hooooooole .. between our thoughts and yours ..

if a journalists .. insulted his mother .. draw imaginary naked picture of her .. he would laugh .. it´s a joke !! hahaha .. so funny ! yes it´s a joke .. and you are really .. nice boy .. keep on



Finally, Just i want to say again .. You Have The Freedom To Speech, And We Have The Freedom To Choose Our Partners And Our Imports !

so why are you getting angry ? .. it´s another joke .. you should laugh !

Muslim skrev:

JP has freedom of speech which means that they haven´t done anything illegal! Why should the danish government apologize for something that JP did and by the way. If you guys stopped making ddos-attacks on the servers you´d be able to read the apologize from JP on their website.

BUT! both jp and arla have made their sorry notes! what more can we do?

OK, they already apologized .. but after what ?

it´s just like .. someone hit you
and then you go and say: apologize for me ..
he says : Never .. i will not you are stupid
you : Ok .. then i´ll boycot your products ..
he: Oh. . iam so sorry !


what i mean .. it´s tooo late to apologize now ..
all muslims around the world are being insulted .. and belive me .. they are feel so badly now ..

in my opinion .. we aren´t stupid that our religion is so important for us .. simply not like yours ..

But i see the denmark government is so so stupid .. that it didn´t try to minimize all this problems before it fires out ..

OK .. it´s 11:30 pm here in Egypt .. just few minutes ago .. our prime minister announced that Egypt has completely boycoted all denmark´s products .. and has already pulled our repersentative there .. and kick out the danish representative ..


OK .. i think iam not going to reply again .. I just in those few posts realized .. that there is big hooooooole .. between our thoughts and yours ..

if a journalists .. insulted his mother .. draw imaginary naked picture of her .. he would laugh .. it´s a joke !! hahaha .. so funny ! yes it´s a joke .. and you are really .. nice boy .. keep on



Finally, Just i want to say again .. You Have The Freedom To Speech, And We Have The Freedom To Choose Our Partners And Our Imports !

so why are you getting angry ? .. it´s another joke .. you should laugh !

Det er svært for mig at respektere lande, der boycotter et lands produkter pga. et par tegninger. Er med på at muslimer ikke må have afgudsbilleder, men vi er ikke et muslimsk land! Hvis Iran kan slippe afsted med at udtale, at Israel skal slettes fra landkortet, hvorfor skal der så gøres et stort nummer ud af det her?

Selvfølgelig skal vi udvise en smule forståelse for religion, muslimerne i Danmark må også godt tilpasse sig en smule.

Forresten, så sørg for at holde debatten sober og saglig, vi gider ikke til at bruge tid på at skulle rydde på !

What you want the dansih government to do? I agree that posting the drawings, was both stupid and could offence a lot of people. And with the tone in the immigrant debat in DK, I think they should have known better. I respect JP´s right to express itself, but I also think that with any freedom, comes also the freedom to choose and the responsibility for your community. I don´t think the the editor on JP was sane, the day he authorised the drawings to be made public, because a lot of people who are not white, feel that they being persecuted in the political debate, being one of them(Danish mom and dutch dad) and having lived my entire life in DK I can relate to that.

A lot of people in Denmark feel that, its just because muslims have no sense of humor. To me thats not necessarily true. What is fun in Denmark is not necessarily fun in other countries. For example a group of famous danish comedians went to edinburg in the UK, where no one liked them, they didn´t understand them. In Denmark these guys are considered very funny! I sometimes makes fun of the christian church in DK, but I don´t talk about it when I visit my grandmother in Amsterdam, who is christian and goes to church at least once a week. It´s because I´m afraid of telling her how I feel, it´s simply because nothing good would come from it.
So imagine how Muslims would react when you take the most sacred person in islam, the prophet muhammed, and desecrate him, I think shows a great lack of responsibility towards, the local community, this being DK.

Personaly I have experienced that people in Denmark have become more suspicious towards muslims. I don´t know whether thats the majority in Denmark, but its definately something one see almost every day. I have even met hostility from a danish priest(og nej det er ikke Søren krarup(DF) selvom jeg har mødt har ham et par gange)