schulz skrev:Det optimale greb er det greb der, når du træner med det, får dig til at mærke mest i lats.

flamingopikken skrev:

schulz skrev:Det optimale greb er det greb der, når du træner med det, får dig til at mærke mest i lats.

Jaeh, det er for dem der kender deres kroppe godt. Mange forveksler ofte et "pump" i lats, med et pump i Teres Major

Spo skrev:Skrevet af cj8000 i BOOBS Log

Underhånd rammer bedre end overhånd!

"PULL-UPS/CHIN-UPS

Misconception #8:

"They say pull-ups work your lats more than chin-ups because they minimize the use of your biceps. They're also harder so they must be better."

I can hear the whistle of incoming flames already. Some of you are probably thinking, "Surely this can't be a misconception." Well, just hang in there (pun intended) and hear me out. Others may be scratching their heads and saying, "But aren't pull-ups and chins just different names for the same exercise?" No, they're not. Let's once again define our terms. When you do pull-ups, your hands are pronated (palms facing away from the body when placed on the bar), and you typically grip the bar a bit wider than shoulder width.

This is a pull-up.

When you do chin-ups, your hands are supinated (palms facing towards the body when placed on the bar) and you grip the bar right around shoulder width, or a bit narrower or wider depending on individual comfort.

This is a chin-up.

Most people find that chin-ups are easier because you're better able to use your biceps, and pull-ups are harder because you can't use your biceps as much. They likely deduce that because of this, pull-ups allow you to put more stress on the lats, and therefore are better for lat development. It's an understandable conclusion, but it's wrong.

In the chin-up, the biceps are placed in a much more efficient pulling position. This enables one to do more reps, or use more weight, as compared to the pull-up, which places the biceps in a comparatively weaker pulling position. If we are trying to get maximal development of the lats, we want to maximize the loading (and loading duration) of the involved musculature by placing the smallest muscles in a position where they can last the longest or be loaded the greatest so that they don't give out prior to the larger muscles involved. Chin-ups accomplish this. Pull-ups don't.

Make no mistake about it, in the pull-up the elbow still flexes, and the movement will be over when the elbow can no longer flex. In addition, the lat contracts through a greater range of motion at the glenohumeral joint on the chin-up. Generally, it's always better to take a muscle through its full safe range of motion for optimal development.

Many times, though, trainees will become concerned with where they "feel" the exercise and they imagine they "feel" the pull-up more in the lats and feel chin-ups more in the biceps. However, unless you have some crazy strength imbalance and can curl your bodyweight, you don't need to worry about feeling chin-ups in your biceps.

By the way, about that upper back "pump" you think you're feeling in your lats after a set of pull-ups: what you're actually feeling is the teres major (a.k.a the "mini-lat"), a relatively small muscle that's being recruited more in the pull-up variation because of the greater adduction component at the shoulder.

That "lat pump" you feel after doing pullups is actually the little teres major.

I'm not suggesting that the pull-up isn't a viable alternative to chins on occasion, but I do believe that if you're using them to maximally develop your lats because you think your biceps aren't involved as much, you need to re-examine your approach.

Chins are probably a better option because you can increase the duration of loading on the lats and use more load in comparison along with an increase in the range of motion. The arm development from chins is a nice side benefit as well, which I'm sure many wouldn't complain about.
_________________

Alien skrev:Argumentet med at man kan tage mere vægt i chins og derved er den bedre er altså, efter min mening, forkert. Grunden til at man kan tage mere vægt på er, momentet der skabes med et bredere greb gør pullups sværre at udfører. Dette må alt andet lige betyde at belastningen på musklen (ved samme vægt) er større i pullups end chins grundet momentet.

Spo skrev:Skrevet af cj8000 i BOOBS Log

Underhånd rammer bedre end overhånd!

"PULL-UPS/CHIN-UPS

Misconception #8:

"They say pull-ups work your lats more than chin-ups because they minimize the use of your biceps. They're also harder so they must be better."

I can hear the whistle of incoming flames already. Some of you are probably thinking, "Surely this can't be a misconception." Well, just hang in there (pun intended) and hear me out. Others may be scratching their heads and saying, "But aren't pull-ups and chins just different names for the same exercise?" No, they're not. Let's once again define our terms. When you do pull-ups, your hands are pronated (palms facing away from the body when placed on the bar), and you typically grip the bar a bit wider than shoulder width.

This is a pull-up.

When you do chin-ups, your hands are supinated (palms facing towards the body when placed on the bar) and you grip the bar right around shoulder width, or a bit narrower or wider depending on individual comfort.

This is a chin-up.

Most people find that chin-ups are easier because you're better able to use your biceps, and pull-ups are harder because you can't use your biceps as much. They likely deduce that because of this, pull-ups allow you to put more stress on the lats, and therefore are better for lat development. It's an understandable conclusion, but it's wrong.

In the chin-up, the biceps are placed in a much more efficient pulling position. This enables one to do more reps, or use more weight, as compared to the pull-up, which places the biceps in a comparatively weaker pulling position. If we are trying to get maximal development of the lats, we want to maximize the loading (and loading duration) of the involved musculature by placing the smallest muscles in a position where they can last the longest or be loaded the greatest so that they don't give out prior to the larger muscles involved. Chin-ups accomplish this. Pull-ups don't.

Make no mistake about it, in the pull-up the elbow still flexes, and the movement will be over when the elbow can no longer flex. In addition, the lat contracts through a greater range of motion at the glenohumeral joint on the chin-up. Generally, it's always better to take a muscle through its full safe range of motion for optimal development.

Many times, though, trainees will become concerned with where they "feel" the exercise and they imagine they "feel" the pull-up more in the lats and feel chin-ups more in the biceps. However, unless you have some crazy strength imbalance and can curl your bodyweight, you don't need to worry about feeling chin-ups in your biceps.

By the way, about that upper back "pump" you think you're feeling in your lats after a set of pull-ups: what you're actually feeling is the teres major (a.k.a the "mini-lat"), a relatively small muscle that's being recruited more in the pull-up variation because of the greater adduction component at the shoulder.

That "lat pump" you feel after doing pullups is actually the little teres major.

I'm not suggesting that the pull-up isn't a viable alternative to chins on occasion, but I do believe that if you're using them to maximally develop your lats because you think your biceps aren't involved as much, you need to re-examine your approach.

Chins are probably a better option because you can increase the duration of loading on the lats and use more load in comparison along with an increase in the range of motion. The arm development from chins is a nice side benefit as well, which I'm sure many wouldn't complain about.
_________________

Misterhamper skrev:www.justfuckinggoogleit.com

vQlse skrev:

Alien skrev:Argumentet med at man kan tage mere vægt i chins og derved er den bedre er altså, efter min mening, forkert. Grunden til at man kan tage mere vægt på er, momentet der skabes med et bredere greb gør pullups sværre at udfører. Dette må alt andet lige betyde at belastningen på musklen (ved samme vægt) er større i pullups end chins grundet momentet.

Kan godt være du har ret i det du skriver, det tør jeg sådan set ikke udtale mig om.
Men med en større ROM i chinups, og med tilføjet vægt - ville det ikke kunne overskygge det evt. moment modstand (har vidst ikke helt forstået hvad du skriver) du snakker om?

Moqensen skrev:

Misterhamper skrev:www.justfuckinggoogleit.com

Utrolig nyttig hjemmeside.
Utroligt jeg ikke har set den før.
Masser af god viden på den.