Fistandantilus skrev:
Der var en gang jeg squattede maximal dybde, og var ret kendt for det.

Men det er ikke så smart i styrkeløftsammenhæng, så nu holder jeg lidt igen.

EmilB skrev:

Fistandantilus skrev:
Der var en gang jeg squattede maximal dybde, og var ret kendt for det.

Men det er ikke så smart i styrkeløftsammenhæng, så nu holder jeg lidt igen.

Lol Det ser ret så underholdende ud.

Philmoreno skrev:Hvad er forskellen på et alm. Squat og et OL style squat.

Har søgt, men kan sku' ik finde noget konkret der lige afslører forskellen for mig.

Mvh

Slazper skrev:Jeg går ikke længere ned end parallelt. Har tidligere gået dybere men har skrøbelige knæer og de brokkede sig lidt. Det skal dog siges at det er i et smithstativ da jeg ikke lige har andre alternativer. Jeg har en bog som jeg lige vedhæfter en side af med lidt modsat mening i forhold til ATTG. Start med at læs højre kolonne ved første afsnit. Det interessante er de nederste 3-4 linjer. Jeg har selv den holdning at man skal gå så dybt som muligt men med acceptabel teknik.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y353/KasperB/IMG.jpg

Bone-14 skrev:

Slazper skrev:Jeg går ikke længere ned end parallelt. Har tidligere gået dybere men har skrøbelige knæer og de brokkede sig lidt. Det skal dog siges at det er i et smithstativ da jeg ikke lige har andre alternativer. Jeg har en bog som jeg lige vedhæfter en side af med lidt modsat mening i forhold til ATTG. Start med at læs højre kolonne ved første afsnit. Det interessante er de nederste 3-4 linjer. Jeg har selv den holdning at man skal gå så dybt som muligt men med acceptabel teknik.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y353/KasperB/IMG.jpg

Parallel squat belaster mere end ATG squat.

EmilB skrev:

Bone-14 skrev:

Slazper skrev:Jeg går ikke længere ned end parallelt. Har tidligere gået dybere men har skrøbelige knæer og de brokkede sig lidt. Det skal dog siges at det er i et smithstativ da jeg ikke lige har andre alternativer. Jeg har en bog som jeg lige vedhæfter en side af med lidt modsat mening i forhold til ATTG. Start med at læs højre kolonne ved første afsnit. Det interessante er de nederste 3-4 linjer. Jeg har selv den holdning at man skal gå så dybt som muligt men med acceptabel teknik.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y353/KasperB/IMG.jpg

Parallel squat belaster mere end ATG squat.

Når han nu har postet en kilde der siger noget andet, var det så ikke en idé at argumentere for hvorfor hans kilde tager fejl.

Bay skrev:

Gosser skrev:

Bay skrev:Du skal helt ned. Det er bedst for dine knæ. Det er med til at udvikle stabilitet omkring knæene og udvikle styrke i dine haser og glutes.

Belaster det ikke knæene yderligere, at gå så langt ned? Det tror jeg i hvert fald ikke, at mine ville kunne holde til.

Ikke så længe teknikken er god.

Det er mere belastende for knæene at partial squatte. I partial squat er stresset næsten udelukkende på quadriceps, som trækker underbenet frem. Under parallel er der stræk på haserne, så de trækker underbindet bagud. Så under parallel er der træk på begge sider af underbenet, så underbenet samt knæet er stabilt i stedet for at blive trukket frem og derved belaste knæet.

EmilB skrev:^
Om end Bay sandsynligvis har ret, så forklarer det stadigvæk ikke hvorfor den citerede bog tager fejl, eller om begge argumenter gør sig gældende men de vægtes forskelligt.

Slazper skrev:

EmilB skrev:^
Om end Bay sandsynligvis har ret, så forklarer det stadigvæk ikke hvorfor den citerede bog tager fejl, eller om begge argumenter gør sig gældende men de vægtes forskelligt.

Lige præcis der jeg vil hen. For jeg vil også mene at ATTG er mest effektivt/sundest, men det svært at finde ud af hvad man skal forholde sig til når diverse forfattere har forskellige teorier. Forfatteren af bogen er vist tysker og hedder Oliver Barteck.

Det kunne være fedt hvis nogen havde noget lignende litteratur der modbeviste barteck.

PURPOSE: Because a strong and stable knee is paramount to an athlete's or patient's success, an understanding of knee biomechanics while performing the squat is helpful to therapists, trainers, sports medicine physicians, researchers, coaches, and athletes who are interested in closed kinetic chain exercises, knee rehabilitation, and training for sport. The purpose of this review was to examine knee biomechanics during the dynamic squat exercise. METHODS: Tibiofemoral shear and compressive forces, patellofemoral compressive force, knee muscle activity, and knee stability were reviewed and discussed relative to athletic performance, injury potential, and rehabilitation. RESULTS: Low to moderate posterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), were generated throughout the squat for all knee flexion angles. Low anterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), were generated between 0 and 60 degrees knee flexion. Patellofemoral compressive forces and tibiofemoral compressive and shear forces progressively increased as the knees flexed and decreased as the knees extended, reaching peak values near maximum knee flexion. Hence, training the squat in the functional range between 0 and 50 degrees knee flexion may be appropriate for many knee rehabilitation patients, because knee forces were minimum in the functional range. Quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity generally increased as knee flexion increased, which supports athletes with healthy knees performing the parallel squat (thighs parallel to ground at maximum knee flexion) between 0 and 100 degrees knee flexion. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that the parallel squat was not injurious to the healthy knee. CONCLUSIONS: The squat was shown to be an effective exercise to employ during cruciate ligament or patellofemoral rehabilitation. For athletes with healthy knees, performing the parallel squat is recommended over the deep squat, because injury potential to the menisci and cruciate and collateral ligaments may increase with the deep squat. The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

BodyHack skrev:Har kigget lidt på et studie udført i 2001, men er lidt i tvivl om hvordan jeg skal forholde mig til det. Så lidt mere kvalificerede personer må meget gerne kommentere:

PURPOSE: Because a strong and stable knee is paramount to an athlete's or patient's success, an understanding of knee biomechanics while performing the squat is helpful to therapists, trainers, sports medicine physicians, researchers, coaches, and athletes who are interested in closed kinetic chain exercises, knee rehabilitation, and training for sport. The purpose of this review was to examine knee biomechanics during the dynamic squat exercise. METHODS: Tibiofemoral shear and compressive forces, patellofemoral compressive force, knee muscle activity, and knee stability were reviewed and discussed relative to athletic performance, injury potential, and rehabilitation. RESULTS: Low to moderate posterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), were generated throughout the squat for all knee flexion angles. Low anterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), were generated between 0 and 60 degrees knee flexion. Patellofemoral compressive forces and tibiofemoral compressive and shear forces progressively increased as the knees flexed and decreased as the knees extended, reaching peak values near maximum knee flexion. Hence, training the squat in the functional range between 0 and 50 degrees knee flexion may be appropriate for many knee rehabilitation patients, because knee forces were minimum in the functional range. Quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity generally increased as knee flexion increased, which supports athletes with healthy knees performing the parallel squat (thighs parallel to ground at maximum knee flexion) between 0 and 100 degrees knee flexion. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that the parallel squat was not injurious to the healthy knee. CONCLUSIONS: The squat was shown to be an effective exercise to employ during cruciate ligament or patellofemoral rehabilitation. For athletes with healthy knees, performing the parallel squat is recommended over the deep squat, because injury potential to the menisci and cruciate and collateral ligaments may increase with the deep squat. The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

Studiet er som sagt fra 2001 og meget kan være sket siden, så mere kompetente personer må som sagt gerne kommentere på det

incognito skrev:

BodyHack skrev:Har kigget lidt på et studie udført i 2001, men er lidt i tvivl om hvordan jeg skal forholde mig til det. Så lidt mere kvalificerede personer må meget gerne kommentere:

PURPOSE: Because a strong and stable knee is paramount to an athlete's or patient's success, an understanding of knee biomechanics while performing the squat is helpful to therapists, trainers, sports medicine physicians, researchers, coaches, and athletes who are interested in closed kinetic chain exercises, knee rehabilitation, and training for sport. The purpose of this review was to examine knee biomechanics during the dynamic squat exercise. METHODS: Tibiofemoral shear and compressive forces, patellofemoral compressive force, knee muscle activity, and knee stability were reviewed and discussed relative to athletic performance, injury potential, and rehabilitation. RESULTS: Low to moderate posterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), were generated throughout the squat for all knee flexion angles. Low anterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), were generated between 0 and 60 degrees knee flexion. Patellofemoral compressive forces and tibiofemoral compressive and shear forces progressively increased as the knees flexed and decreased as the knees extended, reaching peak values near maximum knee flexion. Hence, training the squat in the functional range between 0 and 50 degrees knee flexion may be appropriate for many knee rehabilitation patients, because knee forces were minimum in the functional range. Quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity generally increased as knee flexion increased, which supports athletes with healthy knees performing the parallel squat (thighs parallel to ground at maximum knee flexion) between 0 and 100 degrees knee flexion. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that the parallel squat was not injurious to the healthy knee. CONCLUSIONS: The squat was shown to be an effective exercise to employ during cruciate ligament or patellofemoral rehabilitation. For athletes with healthy knees, performing the parallel squat is recommended over the deep squat, because injury potential to the menisci and cruciate and collateral ligaments may increase with the deep squat. The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

Studiet er som sagt fra 2001 og meget kan være sket siden, så mere kompetente personer må som sagt gerne kommentere på det

Er det Escamilla's review?

BodyHack skrev:@Incognito: Ja det er det. Det var i øvrigt meningen jeg ville linke til den, men det glemte jeg åbenbart, så det undskylder jeg

Her er den i hvert fald: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11194098

ST.K skrev:Her vil jeg give Incognito ret. Har i mange år lavet SL squat. Og det har givet vedvarende smerter i lænden som jeg stadig er kraftig plaget af på trods af det er flere år siden. skader/overbelastning af lænd er langt være end knæ. Har tit lidt ømhed i knæ men det går over. Så SL squat med stor hoftevandring har langt større skades potentiale mener jeg.
Ang squat dybde, der er jeg i den overbevisning at man skal køre så dybt som teknikken tillader. Dvs uden bækken tilt, flad fod i gulv og dårlig krops holdning.

Some recommendations suggest keeping the shank as vertical as possible during the barbell squat, thus keeping the knees from moving past the toes. This study examined joint kinetics occurring when forward displacement of the knees is restricted vs. when such movement is not restricted. Seven weight-trained men (mean +/- SD; age = 27.9 +/- 5.2 years) were videotaped while performing 2 variations of parallel barbell squats (barbell load = body weight). Either the knees were permitted to move anteriorly past the toes (unrestricted) or a wooden barrier prevented the knees from moving anteriorly past the toes (restricted). Differences resulted between static knee and hip torques for both types of squat as well as when both squat variations were compared with each other (p < 0.05). For the unrestricted squat, knee torque (N.m; mean +/- SD) = 150.1 +/- 50.8 and hip torque = 28.2 +/- 65.0. For the restricted squat, knee torque = 117.3 +/- 34.2 and hip torque = 302.7 +/- 71.2. Restricted squats also produced more anterior lean of the trunk and shank and a greater internal angle at the knees and ankles. The squat technique used can affect the distribution of forces between the knees and hips and on the kinematic properties of the exercise. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS: Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region. Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes.

Philmoreno skrev:

ST.K skrev:Her vil jeg give Incognito ret. Har i mange år lavet SL squat. Og det har givet vedvarende smerter i lænden som jeg stadig er kraftig plaget af på trods af det er flere år siden. skader/overbelastning af lænd er langt være end knæ. Har tit lidt ømhed i knæ men det går over. Så SL squat med stor hoftevandring har langt større skades potentiale mener jeg.
Ang squat dybde, der er jeg i den overbevisning at man skal køre så dybt som teknikken tillader. Dvs uden bækken tilt, flad fod i gulv og dårlig krops holdning.

Har det ingen betydning for hofte/lænd om man kører SL squat med dumbells eller barbell??